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Transcript

E&OE………

SARAH ABO: Welcome back. Well, hundreds of Australians are desperate to flee the Middle East this morning as Iran and Israel launched devastating missile attacks. It comes as more than 250 are killed in Iran and 24 in Israel in the escalating crisis. Joining us to discuss today's headlines in New South is NSW Liberal senator Dave Sharma and Tasmanian Greens senator David Shoebridge. Good to have you both in the studio this morning. Up to the studio. All right, Dave, I want to start with you because you were obviously Australia's ambassador to Israel. When you look at the conflict that's happening now, obviously what we've seen as well in the past 18 months has been devastating. What do you think the end game is here?

DAVE SHARMA: I think the end game for Israel is an Iran that can no longer threaten it with annihilation. And this is a country that has been hell bent on their destruction for at least the last two decades, that's ideologically committed to wiping out Israel, that has supported armed terrorist groups in the region, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Hutis in Yemen to that end, and decided an immense amount of chaos and destruction in the region.

SARAH ABO: How likely are they to have success?

DAVE SHARMA: I think treating that look, I think they will, they are, they are already having success and they will have success in significantly setting back Irans nuclear enrichment programme, their weaponization programme and their ballistic missile programme. So the main elements which have an ability to threaten the destruction of another state are being targeted. And I think they're being significantly degraded.

SARAH ABO: David, we know that the US President Donald Trump is hopeful or believes that there'll be a deal between Iran and Israel. I mean, he's the man who talks about deals all the time, right? Is 1 likely when it comes to these two warring nations?

DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: Well, you hope some kind of arrangement can happen rapidly and the world has an obligation to try and make it happen, to deescalate. But of course, you know, Donald Trump was meant his administration was meant to be having a meeting with Iran, which was derailed by yet another escalation by Netanyahu. And and we're seeing just this morning yet more escalation by Israel issuing the same kind of warnings to evacuate parts of Tehran that Israel has been issuing to evacuate parts of Gaza, Yet another escalation from Netanyahu. And this can, of course, only happen with the United States green light. I mean, the United States says it's not involved in this, but these are US weapons. It's US diplomatic support, almost certainly U.S. intelligence and US targeting that is being relied upon by Israel and yet another escalation. So what Donald Trump says and what his administration does, I think are, are quite distinct. And, you know, I, I think many people wake up in the morning, they open their phone, they have a look at these news and they're deeply, deeply unsettled, increasingly scared by what seems a never ending escalation by Israel.

SARAH ABO: I guess the point that David makes is right. You know, the US is involved here, but not necessarily the one actually dropping the bombs per se. At what point will that likely happen? I mean, we know that Donald Trump has so far vetoed a direct hit on the supreme leader in Iran. That’s something Bejamin Netanyahu is after though.

DAVE SHARMA: Well, reportedly, I mean, I'm not sure we can, we can you know, how much seriousness we take that. But I would say that, look, Donald Trump said I want to embark upon a diplomatic process with Iran. He did. He said, I'll give that two months to work. He gave it two months. Two months expired last Friday. I don't think we should be surprised that the failure of diplomacy has led to conflict. It often does.

SARAH ABO: I guess, Dave, the, the tragic part about all of this is the lives lost, right? The civilians who have been caught in, in this, and not just the recent deaths that we've seen, but 55,000 who've been killed in Gaza in the past 18 months, as well as the atrocities we saw on October seven. And it's just so heartbreaking to watch on from this. We're now seeing Australians who are stuck over there. There are some 650 wanting to get out. How urgent is repatriation right now? How much more should the government be doing to try and get Aussies home?

DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: Well, it's absolutely urgent. And of course, from Israel and Iran, there are hundreds of Australians in Iran. And, and I, I said earlier, this warning has been issued to an entire entire neighbourhoods in Tehran that the need to evacuate Australians from both Iran and Israel is really urgent. And and in all of this, sometimes we talk about Donald Trump and we talk about Netanyahu, we talk about Anthony Albanese. But the people we should be most concerned about are the ordinary Iranian on the street, the someone trying to live in Tel Aviv, The that that person in Gaza who's living in their third tent worried about the next bomb that's gonna fall. You know that I would love to see more concern about the people on the street in these countries 'cause they're the ones who are dying.

SARAH ABO: No, absolutely.

DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: And they're the ones the world has an obligation to try and protect.

SARAH ABO: Yeah, I think we'll agree on that, that's for sure. Well, Anthony Albanese is preparing to meet Donald Trump tomorrow, when he'll reportedly put Australia's critical minerals on the negotiating table. Dave, is the PM just playing straight to Trump's Trump's hands here, especially with orcas at stake?

DAVE SHARMA: No, I don't think so. I think I think the Prime Minister has an opportunity to 1, convince Donald Trump of the value of orcas not only to Australia but to the United States as well, and our joint endeavours in the Indo Pacific. But 2, to convince him that we are an important and valued trading partner that brings unique assets to bear, including critical minerals. And for that reason, we should be exempt from punitive tariffs that the US is imposing elsewhere. But that's the test here. Can Albanese convince Trump of both of those things?

SARAH ABO: David, there's a bit on that he was gonna talk to Trump about, that's for sure. But it's also interesting about what role Australia plays, right? You don't want to be too subservient, obviously, but you do want to talk about this. And I saw an interesting piece in the SMH yesterday which poses the question, at what point does the US not become a desirable ally anymore?

DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: Well, at the point that it's led by someone like Donald Trump with an administration that seems to be sending the military against its own people, threatening Canada, threatening Greenland, trying to break up NATO, it seems to be a very erratic and dangerous ally and one of my real

SARAH ABO: it's one that we need, isn't it, especially in our region.

DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: Well, this idea that we need the US to save us, we need some great and powerful friend to save us is something that I would hope is more Australian leaders challenge like we live in one of the most.

SARAH ABO: How else do we protect us?

DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: Well, we live in one of the most geopolitically secure parts of the world in a very unfashionable corner of Oceania with huge amounts of ocean and archipelago to protect ourselves. The idea that we need the US military here to protect ourselves is something we should be challenging. And one of my concerns is what we're seeing with AUKUS is far from the US protecting us. The US is the arrangement with AUKUS is designed to enmesh us in a war with China. Not our war with China, but the United States war with China. We don't want a war with China. But Donald Trump and his administration seem to be shaping up for that. So my concern is, you know, Anthony Albanese will go and meet Trump, offering yet more tribute, maybe some of our critical minerals. We don't need to offer tribute. In many ways, Donald Trump might save us from AUKUS.

SARAH ABO: We'll see how it plays out. There is a lot on the table, that's for sure. Thank you both so much for coming in today.

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