Topics: super tax, economic roundtable, Palestinian statehood

E&OE.......................

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SHARRI MARKSON: Welcome back. Well the Albanese government's unpopular super tax seems already to be backfiring. Transport moguls Kim Lindsay and Neil Mansell have revealed they are pulling out of their self managed super funds before the tax takes effect. And longtime Lab=r friend Lindsay Fox told the Australian “I just think it is a bad policy. I don't know why they would do it. It won't work.” Well let's bring in now former state Labor Secretary Cameron Milner and Liberal Senator Dave Sharma. Welcome to you both. Now Dave, this was clearly bad policy to tax money that people don't have in their pocket yet and it seems that those that it might affect are already restructuring their financial affairs to avoid being hit.

DAVE SHARMA: Yeah, I think that's right. I mean there's three things to say about this tax. I think firstly, it's not going to work because people are going to restructure their financial arrangements so they don't have unrealised gains in their self managed super funds. Two, there's no reform element to this at all. This is not about encouraging productivity or driving investment or creating a more equitable tax burden. And lastly, I mean this tax is almost certainly likely to in fact hurt investment because a lot of early stage investment people do that from their self managed super funds and early stage investment being illiquid in nature, being in private companies often leads to unrealised gains and also unrealised losses because you're not able to liquidify the asset readily and that will put off investment in some of the most promising parts of the Australian economy. Early stage high risk growth oriented Australian companies.

SHARRI MARKSON: Yeah, it's not often discussed that it is going to impact the startup sector as well. Cameron, what do you think?

CAMERON MILNER: Well I think Bill Kelty has nailed this and obviously Bill Kelty's work with Lindsay Fox over many years as well. I mean Keating's called it out, Kelly's called it out. I mean I have a lot of time as you know for Jim Chalmers. I think he's a genuine reformer. I think he comes up with some really good ideas. This one though as the details come out I think it's become harder and harder to justify the unrealised nature of the capital gains. And to David's point people will just shift their arrangements if they're that wealthy so it won't actually create the revenue for the political pain that it's going to cause at the front end.

SHARRI MARKSON: Well there's the productivity roundtable that's getting close now and yet there's a lot of talk we're hearing about raising taxes, also legislation, but you know, we're seeing Labour MPs on television speak publicly about raising taxes as part of this roundtable which is meant to be about productivity. Dave, are you concerned with what you're hearing so far?

DAVE SHARMA: I'm very concerned. I mean look, we in the Liberal Party approach this summit with a constructive attitude. Ted O’Brien, our Shadow Treasurer is participating. And if the government is genuinely interested in reform, we will offer bipartisan support to reforms we think are in the nation's interest. But I think the most alarming thing is there has been no mention of spending restraint in the lead up to this summit. Now government spending is growing at four times the rate of the economy, 6% versus 1.5% in real terms. We've seen the size of the federal government or federal government spending go from 24% of GDP just a few years ago to 27% of GDP now. At the moment four in five jobs that are being created are being created in sectors that the government funds. The so called non market sector. Now all of that is a recipe for a very sick low productivity, low growth economy. And the biggest thing to tackle here is spending restraint. And that doesn't seem to be anywhere amongst any of the talking points or any of the suggestions about what might emerge from this.

SHARRI MARKSON: I want to just move on to the topic of Palestinian statehood. I've spoken about it a lot tonight but Cameron, I can't not ask you about it because you wrote about it in your nightly column this week. You said that the recognition of Palestinian statehood immediately would simply further legitimise the control of the murderous terrorists. So you know, what do you think is happening here? This is not traditional policy of the Labor Party that you support. I mean of course in the past a two state solution has been the ideal. But right now when Hamas is still in control in Gaza and no one seems to be recognising Israel's right to exist, how can this be accelerated by the Albanese government?

CAMERON MILNER: Well it's because the radical left of the Labor Party who've been getting more and more votes at Labor Party conferences are finally now in leadership. The Tony Burkes and Penny Wongs are senior Albanese cabinet ministers and they've held these, you know, pro Palestinian, anti Israel views for conference after conference and they're finally in charge. That's the problem. I mean Penny Wong would love to see, you know, a Palestinian state and has no plan to remove Hamas. But the Palestinian statehoods are supposedly the ideal. I mean, this is just incredibly bad policy, incredibly bad politics. And to your point, denies absolutely the sovereign right of Israel to exist safely and securely. And up until October 6th they were. So let's not, let's not put that to one side too. I mean, Israel has operated in this region for decades and decades peacefully until Hamas as a terrorist organisation used Gaza as a launching pad to slaughter 1,200 people and continue a war for two years that's now left Gazans suffering from starvation and deprivation because of Hamas. And yet Penny Wong would reward them by giving them a seat at the UN.

SHARRI MARKSON: No, exactly. And Dave, this is the contradiction, you could call it the fantasy in the Albanese government's position. They say Hamas can have no role in the future governing of Gaza. They say the hostages must be brought home and they say Israel must end the war. So how will Hamas be removed? And who's going to bring home the hostages if Israel won't do it?

DAVE SHARMA: Well, that's right. And we've seen this sort of move towards recognition by parts of the international community, UK, France, Canada, Australia. What it has done, I'm sure the architects of this policy didn't intend it to be the case, but it was always likely to happen, is it's emboldened Hamas. So we've seen reports that a cease fire deal that was close, that was being negotiated by Steve Witkoff, Trump's special envoy. Hamas has now changed the terms. They're not going to agree to a ceasefire now until they have a fully fledged state and a capital in Jerusalem. So they've shifted the goalpost because they see that the international community is not serious about their removal. And parts of the international community quite cynically are using the public's legitimate concern about the awful humanitarian situation in Gaza and saying, well, this is how we're going to address it, through recognition of the Palestinian state. The truth is it will do nothing to alleviate the humanitarian situation. It will embolden Hamas and it's not going to make a Palestinian state any more likely. I mean, recognition by Australia or the UK or Canada or France is not going to bring about a Palestinian state. Only the UN Security Council can do that and the US has a veto there. But that can only come about if Israel agrees to it. That's why it's always been a negotiated two state solution.

SHARRI MARKSON: Yeah, indeed. Okay, just quickly, Putin's alleged secret daughter has come out swinging against her father online. She reportedly posted on social media saying it's liberating to be able to show my face to the world again. It reminds me of who I am and who destroyed my life very quickly. Cameron, you think she'd be worried about her safety after this?

CAMERON MILNER: Well, and she was a big Instagram influencer just a couple of years ago, before her father declared war in Ukraine. Look, I think anything that brings attention just how awful Putin is and how awful this war is in Ukraine is worthwhile. Whether she's the daughter or not, who knows? But at least. At least it's bringing attention to this awful war that's got to end.

SHARRI MARKSON: No. Indeed. All right, Dave, Cameron, thank you both so much.

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