Thursday, 19 June 2025

Topics: Israel-Iran conflict, Australia’s international standing.

E&OE………

SHARRI MARKSON: Welcome back and let's bring in now Liberal Senator and former Australian Ambassador to Israel, Dave Sharma. Dave, great to see you. And, we've actually got some quite big breaking news. Israel's Defence Minister, Israel Katz, has just visited the bombed hospital site and he said that one of Israel's war goals now is to target the Supreme Leader, Khamenei. He's just said this in the past few minutes. He's described him as the modern Hitler. He said he cannot continue to exist and he says that under Israel's war goals, without question, the man should not continue to exist. He's comparing him or he says he's a modern Hitler. So, Dave Sharma, that's extremely significant because the United States President had said that they weren't coming after Khamenei for the moment, but now we've got Israel's Defence Minister saying he's the modern Hitler. It's in line with Israel's war goals. They are going to target him. What's your response? What do you think about this?

DAVE SHARMA: Look obviously Israel is very upset at Soroka Hospital being hit down in Beersheba. I know the hospital, I've been there. And the government's very angry. I'd wait to see a statement from Prime Minister Netanyahu about this, though, before reaching any conclusions. Because I think, look, to date, Israel's goals have been to dismantle, degrade, destroy Iran's nuclear facilities, its ballistic missile programme and discourage it from continuing support for armed terrorist groups. And I think there are those. They're all legitimate goals. I think if Israel gets in the business of actively seeking regime changes, so to speak, that's a significant shift in goals and it might not enjoy the same level of support across the world. Or indeed, you know, often if a foreign adversary comes and suggests regime change in your country, it's often a way to rally the local public there around the existing leadership.

SHARRI MARKSON: Mm, we’re almost a week into the war and Israel has been, of course, incredibly successful, an extraordinary operation. Although, as we've just seen, Iran is still firing missiles that are actually hitting a hospital, you know, the most extreme example. So how much does Israel need American help here?

DAVE SHARMA: Well, look, I think America is providing help in, in tracking and shooting down incoming ballistic missiles drones and other offensive weaponry that Iran is firing at Israel. Look Israel has no doubt, you know, had a tragic loss of life and many facilities have been damaged. But I would say my assessment of my understanding of people on the ground is the Iranian response has been less than expected or less than has been feared in large part because Israel got in early and you know, destroyed a number of the ballistic missiles launch sites and launch vehicles as well. And I think that's meant that Iran's capacity to respond has been much more limited than might have been expected.

SHARRI MARKSON: And do you have a view on whether US President Donald Trump will make the final call to use the B2 bombers to destroy the photonuclear site?

DAVE SHARMA: Look, I think as he said today, he may do it, he may not do it. No one knows the answer to that question. Very true statement. But clearly the United States is putting in place the assets to do that should it wish. I mean there's another US aircraft carrier battle group that's on its way to the Middle East and will arrive in the next day or two that joins one that is there already. They have been moving assets that are in nearby theatres, including Europe, air to air refuelers, strategic bombers and the like. And I think that gives them the options should he make that decision. And clearly there are active discussions in Washington. There's no great secret about that, about what US assistance or involvement might look like and what are the risks to any such operation and how would that play out?

SHARRI MARKSON: Dave just on the Australian response when the war broke out, Penny Wong called for both sides to de-escalate as if there was some equivalence between Israel and Iran. How ludicrous is, are these, were these, comments?

DAVE SHARMA: Well, she also, she called on both sides to de-escalate. She also called for a return to dialogue. I mean, Israel and Iran have not spoken in 46 years. The Islamic Republic of Iran does not recognise Israel. In fact, it's committed to Israel's destruction. There are no diplomatic relations and there has been no dialogue. There's nothing to return to. So I think that was unanchored from reality. But I'm pleased to see that she's changed her tone and her message considerably since then. I expect that Anthony Albanese at the G7 meeting got quite a clear steer about what other world leaders were doing. And it was clear that Australia's calls, plaintiff calls, were just out of step with where the international community is on this issue.

SHARRI MARKSON: Exactly. And I like the way you put that about her comments, you know, not attached to reality. As a former ambassador yourself, do you shudder at the sort of language we have heard from Penny Wong and the Albanese government and just how much of a departure it is from long term bipartisan support for Israel?

DAVE SHARMA: I do. And I think, I think it's, it’s done Australia's standing damage. I mean, I think we, we basically dealt ourselves into irrelevance under this government. I mean, you know, Penny Wong issues these statements from Adelaide and press conferences, but the world is not listening. No one is taking Australia's views on this issue seriously. They’re getting on and dealing with it. And you know, look, as I think most world leaders overwhelmingly recognise that Iran's destabilising actions in the region, its pursuit of nuclear weapons, its ballistic missile programme, its support to armed Terrorist groups has been a negative force throughout the world. And if Iran is not prepared to deal with that through diplomacy, then we should be glad it's being dealt with through other means.

SHARRI MARKSON: Indeed, now, I've been contacted by so many people over this. Over the past week there are hundreds of Australian citizens stranded in both Israel and Iran and the Albanese government has offered to get people from Israel into Jordan, but then nothing. So, there'd be elderly people, new mothers, just stranded in Jordan. And in fact, the Australian embassy was closed for a few days when this first happened. Do you think this is all an acceptable response?

DAVE SHARMA: Look, I understand that, you know, our embassy and the staff there are operating under very difficult circumstances. You know, I've been in touch with people there just to make sure they know that, you know, they've got our support. I know it's a challenging environment. I've also been in touch with a number of Australians who have been evacuated through Jordan. From what I understand, the ones I've spoken to, they've been, you know, escorted to the border crossing with Jordan, facilitated across it, escorted into Amman, provided accommodation in Amman. I think, you know -

SHARRI MARKSON: But is that by the government or is that by AIJAC? Is that by AIJAC or by the Albanese government?

DAVE SHARMA: No, my understanding is that that's by the government. An individual I heard from today who's in Israel, who's going out through that route. He explained to me that this is what the plan and the process was. And if that's indeed happening, and I think it should be being the Australian government should be facilitating each of those moves as much as is possible, consistent with our footprint on the ground. But you know, I'm hesitant to be more critical in that because I know that there are. Is a very difficult operating environment.

SHARRI MARKSON: Well, I hope they are going to do that for more people because I can't tell you how many people have contacted me saying they feel totally abandoned. Anyway, Dave, thank you very much for your time tonight. And just a quick mention, I'll be speaking with both Dave Sharma and Nova Peris, who was one of those Australians stranded in Israel on Sunday.

[ENDS]

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