Topics: Palestinian statehood, economic roundtable, AI

E&OE.......................

‍

SALLY SARA: Well, let's bring in now Liberal Senator for New South Wales, Dave Sharma. He's also a former ambassador to Israel and is now the Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition Charities and Treasury. Dave Sharma, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.

DAVE SHARMA: Good morning, Sally. Thanks for having me.

SALLY SARA: Firstly, what do you make of the Israeli cabinet's approval of the full military takeover of Gaza City?

DAVE SHARMA: I'd say that, firstly, the decision has been made. No operation has commenced. But secondly, it's part of the continuation of the war against Hamas. And, uh, that operation would not need to proceed. It would not need to go ahead if a ceasefire deal is reached before then, and I think there is certainly a prospect of that. But also if Hamas released the hostages and, brought this war to an end and relinquish military power, two things that the Albanese government has itself demanded.

SALLY SARA: Given your work as an ambassador and a diplomat, you'd have a deep understanding of the ramifications of such a decision. If Israel goes ahead with this full military takeover in Gaza City, would this constitute a breach of international law, in your view?

DAVE SHARMA: Well look, firstly, you know, I'm not going to foreshadow what happens. And secondly, I can't say, you know, whether any particular action does or not, but there's no reason it needs to. I would say, look, we had many people, including in Australia, warn Israel against going into Rafah earlier in this crisis. But if Israel is waging continuing its military campaign against Hamas, if this campaign is intended to defeat Hamas and recover the hostages, it is compliant with international law. Now, it depends on how Israel chooses to conduct it or does conduct that campaign, but you cannot say. If Israel is conducting a war against an adversary Hamas, they are allowed to pursue them in some parts of Gaza, but not in others. That's not the way the law of armed conflict works.

SALLY SARA: Is this more an issue of how that conflict unfolds, the way in which the Israeli military conducts its operations, and the effect that that has on civilians?

DAVE SHARMA: I'd say firstly that this entire war has been tragic for civilians on both sides, on Israel and in Gaza, too. And that's why you do all you can to prevent wars. But there are two parties to this conflict, and both of them have an obligation to observe international humanitarian. Holding and taking of hostages is a clear breach of international humanitarian law. Hamas has been engaged that since the 7th of October. But it's also important that Israel abides by international humanitarian law in its conduct of this conflict. But I think what we sometimes get lost in this debate, and I think what it took Helen Clark some time to refer to until you asked her, was, what are the obligations on Hamas here? What is the pressure that the international community is placing on Hamas? Because ultimately, it's them coming to the table that will resolve this conflict.

SALLY SARA: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has described Australia and other nations as shameful for even considering the prospect of Palestinian statehood. What's your response to that?

DAVE SHARMA: Well, I'd say that I think, unfortunately, these two questions, which are quite separate, have become conflated in people's minds. That is relieving the humanitarian situation in Gaza. And I do think that Israel needs to do a better job in ensuring that humanitarian food and medical assistance reaches the civilian population of Gaza. I do believe that has not been sufficient and there is significant food insecurity. But the question of recognition of a Palestinian state is quite separate. And I think what has happened as a result of many nations making these moves towards recognition is it's strengthened Hamas's international position, it's made Hamas less likely to reach a ceasefire. Its made Hamas be able to portray itself as making political progress because of its military actions, and that is actually pushing back the resolution of this conflict, which I think has been a deeply unfortunate consequence, which is why I think those two issues should not be linked.

SALLY SARA: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast and you're hearing from Senator Dave Sharma, a former ambassador to Israel, now Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury. Let's turn to domestic politics now. On the government's Economic Reform Roundtable, which is being held next week, how ambitious should the government be from the view of the coalition?

DAVE SHARMA: Well, I think the government needs to be highly ambitious. I mean, I think Australia is in a dire economic situation. We've got living standards that are going backwards. We've got labour force productivity that is going backwards. We've got government spending at a level not seen in 40 years. We've got government spending growing at four times the level of tax revenue. We've got housing that is unaffordable. These are all significant economics problems or challenges. And unless we address them, then any number of our other national challenges, we are not going to be able to meet them. That's why getting the economy moving again and getting living standards moving again, getting productivity moving is a vital outcome from this summit.

SALLY SARA: Do you think that the current laws around copyright are enough to protect Australians from having their work used without permission to train AI models?

DAVE SHARMA: Look, I think that's a live debate, and I've been following that closely, and I can understand the concerns of people who create original content that that content is basically being farmed and monetized by large AI engines. And I think, you know, I don't have a settled view on it, but I appreciate that it is a new and emerging issue, and if changes to the copyright regime are necessary, then we should be prepared to look at that. But I think it's a little early to be rushing into those sorts of changes. We need to see how this technology unfolds, but we also need to canvas views more widely on that.

SALLY SARA: Dave Sharma, thank you for your time this morning on breakfast.

DAVE SHARMA: Thanks so much for having me, Sally.

SALLY SARA: Dave Sharma is senator for New South Wales and the Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury, and former Australian ambassador to Israel.

[ENDS]