Topics: Liberal leadership, Sydney protests

HAMISH MACDONALD: Dave Sharma is the Liberal senator for New South Wales. Former Australian Ambassador to Israel as well, so we might put some other questions to him. Dave Sharma, very good morning to you.

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DAVE SHARMA: Good morning, Hamish. Good to join you.

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HAMISH MACDONALD: Does Sussan Ley still enjoy your support as leader?

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DAVE SHARMA: Yes she does. I serve in her shadow ministry and she has my support as leader and I continue to focus on doing my job which is holding the Labor government to account and making sure or doing our best to make sure we're a credible opposition. Now I know, there's a lot of speculation and a lot of talk at the moment. I'm not involved in that. I'm just trying to get on with the job that the people of New South Wales sent me here to do.

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HAMISH MACDONALD: Would you like Angus Taylor to show his hand one way or another?

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DAVE SHARMA: Well, I think it's important that we put the leadership issue to rest, and I think we owe that to the public. We owe that to ourselves. We owe that to the people who support us. But we also owe it more broadly to the people of Australia because I recognize that as long as this goes on for it is an immense distraction and we're not able to do our job as an opposition properly.

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HAMISH MACDONALD: You're a pretty mild-mannered character in my experience, Dave are you angry at what's happening in your party right now? You know how you look to the outside world.

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DAVE SHARMA: I'm very frustrated and I'm very frustrated. I'm a little, I wouldn't quite say despairing but it does trouble me because I don’t think Australia is being well run at the moment. I think we have a lot of national problems and national issues and it is our job as an opposition to highlight those and to put forward alternative ideas to address those. And at the moment, we're not doing as good a job of that as we should be.

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HAMISH MACDONALD: Um, but isn't that your own fault as a party? That you're, you know, no one else is to blame for this, right?

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DAVE SHARMA: No. I accept that and that's what makes it quite frustrating. I do hope we can put this issue behind us one way or the other very soon and move on.

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HAMISH MACDONALD: Could you Angus Taylor as leader? I will support whoever has been elected by the Liberal Party room to be the leader.

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DAVE SHARMA: I think it's important that we all make that commitment because whoever is chosen to be the captain of the team, it's ultimately a team sport, politics, and if, um, the team is trying to play different games or different strategies on the field,  we're not going to win. And I think that's why we need to put this behind us. Look, I recognise though that it's not unusual in opposition to have these sorts of things. You come under political pressure, there's leadership turmoil. That's not unprecedented by any stretch during spells in opposition. So some of this is understandable but I think we need to move beyond it.

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HAMISH MACDONALD: Should Angus Taylor serve a petition, a letter, to demonstrate that he's got some level of support in order to challenge Sussan Ley or should he just be able to say, "I want to do this," or his supporters say that?

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DAVE SHARMA: Look, my understanding is, and I'm not the guardian of the rules of internal rules of the Liberal Party, but that is, if and when a party room meeting is called and if there is a successful spill motion then there's a contest for the leadership. Now, the mechanism you need to bring that about, look, I'm not entirely sure of it myself. And there are other people in the party who are. That's not something I've concerned myself with though.

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HAMISH MACDONALD: The Israeli President Isaac Herzog will visit Canberra today. There's expected to be further protests. I do want to ask you about one particular moment at the Monday night rally involving Grace Tame, the former Australian of the Year. This is what she had to say. So for those that didn't quite catch that:

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[CLIP STARTS]

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GRACE TAME: from Gadigal to Gaza, globalize the intifada

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[CLIP ENDS]

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HAMISH MACDONALD: was the chant that was led by Grace Tame. There have been calls for her to be stripped of her Australian of the Year honour. What's your position on this? It's a particularly controversial phrase but obviously different people have different views about what it means.

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DAVE SHARMA: Well, I don't have I don't think it should be controversial. I think an intifada is an armed violent uprising directed at a civilian population. That's the common meaning of the term. And so if you're asking or urging people to globalize the intifada, you're urging them to bring that campaign, an armed uprising of terrorism and attacks on civilians, to Australia.

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HAMISH MACDONALD: When people that go to the protest and chant it say, "Oh, it just means a shaking off. Uh it means a sense of kind of resisting. It's nothing violent," do you think they're being disingenuous? What do you think?

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DAVE SHARMA: I do think they're being, I do think they're being disingenuous. I mean, the word as it's commonly understood and its historical context is the first and second Intifadas in West Bank.

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HAMISH MACDONALD: But you sort of get up, you end up into ridiculous territory though once you start banning phrases, don't you? Like I saw someone at the rally the other night with a big sign with a Mexican dish on it saying "Globalize the enchilada." And, you know, that's the sort of space we're entering into by banning phrases, isn't it?

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DAVE SHARMA: Yeah, but look, I hasten to add, Hamish, you asked me what my view was of the phrase. That's my view. Now do I think certain phrases should be outlawed? Well, no, I I'm very hesitant to go down that path because I think it leads to the sorts of results you've outlined. But I think someone in a position of leadership and responsibility who's been awarded the Australian of the Year, it affords them an immense privilege and an immense platform, I think they have a duty to exercise that platform responsibly and to be very mindful of what they're calling for. And I don't think there's any other way you can interpret that phrase. I think apologists for that phrase might seek to contextualize it away but I think everyone knows what it means.

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HAMISH MACDONALD: Dave Sharma, we've got to get to the news. Thanks for your time.

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DAVE SHARMA: Thanks so much, Hamish.

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HAMISH MACDONALD: Liberal Senator Dave Sharma there.

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[ENDS]