Topics: Indian-Australian community, Dan Andrews & Bob Carr in China, US-India relations.

E&OE.......................

PATRICIA KARVELAS: I spoke to Liberal Senator Dave Sharma about Jacinta Price's comments a short time ago. Dave Sharma, welcome to the programme.

DAVE SHARMA: Thanks so much for having me.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Yesterday, Senator Nampijinpa Price came on this programme and made some comments that have been rebuked by many. You are of Indian Australian heritage. How did they land on you?

DAVE SHARMA: Well, I think it was very poorly expressed and I'm glad that Senator Price has since, I think, clarified and withdrawn those remarks because they were hurtful to the Indian-Australian community, of which I consider myself a part. And, you know, I don't think we should ever be going around stereotyping any migrant community, you know, for their political views or beliefs or whatever that might be. You know, people who've decided to make a home here in Australia are Australians, and that's all there is to say about it, I think.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Well, I don't know if it's all because she has actually in many ways doubled down. She says she's got nothing to apologise about. So, you know, she's kind of really sticking by the spirit of her comments.

DAVE SHARMA: Well, that's not how I read her retraction, I think. Look, I would say this; it's fair and legitimate to have a debate, a respectful debate, about the optimal size of Australia's migration programme. And I don't think we should shy away from that. But it's very important when we do so, that we don't do it on, you know, on the basis of race or ethnicity or characterisation of the groups, the behaviour of any particular groups. Australia's migration immigration programme needs to be working in Australia's national interest. But it should be race and colourblind.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Well, it is absolutely meant to be race and colourblind, but those rallies over the weekend did target communities, particularly the Indian community. And I've seen some of the materials out of those rallies. It is actually really clear. And that's actually the question I was asking Senator Price in relation to that. You know, are these basically good, you know, rallies of good people or are they based on specific ethnic groups? They are about specific ethnic groups then, aren't they?

DAVE SHARMA: Well, look, certainly some of the promotional material that I'd seen for the rallies had basically singled out Indian Australians for criticism, and I found that abhorrent. I don't know if everyone who was participating in the rallies was signed up to that view. I suspect not. I suspect there were more radical and extreme elements that were there that were targeting specific groups, but I do know that the Indian Australian community, unsurprisingly, um, uh, was made to feel very unwelcome as a result. Many of them felt that these protests and marches were directed at them. And I think that's, that's deeply regrettable. I don't want any Australian group of Australians being made to feel unwelcome in their own country.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Well, there are people in the Indian diaspora today who are pretty upset about all of this. It's being widely reported and shared in, uh, Indian people's, you know, WhatsApp groups. This is the way the modern world works. Does that concern you that that view is now kind of being shifted, shared across the board?

DAVE SHARMA: Yeah, it does. It concerns me deeply. And that's partly why I wanted to come on your show today to say that this is not the view of the Liberal Party, that we welcome Indian Australians and the contribution they've made to Australia. You know, we will always be attentive to your interests and attentive to the Indian Australian community and we want to be thankful for the contribution they've made to Australia. I mean, Indian Australians, now, every community makes a contribution in different ways. But, you know, they have been a fantastic community. They are ambitious for their neighbourhoods, for their children, for their businesses. They're energetic, they're entrepreneurial. You know, I think they've been, they've made such a positive contribution to Australia. And I think that's overwhelmingly the view within my party, the Liberal Party.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Yeah, but it's not obviously the universal view, Senator Price, when speaking to me and people can see it on iView and just make their own judgments. I would never verbal anyone, but the, that the spirit of it definitely was that a lot of the Indian Australian community is, you know, basically more open to voting for Labour. Is that how you see it?

DAVE SHARMA: No, that's not how I see it. And look, you know, we would, I mean we should, I've spent a lot of time with the Indian Australian community. Yes, we would love their, their vote and supported elections. But that's not the only thing we're interested in them for either. I mean, these are citizens and contributors and business owners and employers, and, you know, operators of NGOs. I mean, you know, we value them because they are citizens of Australia. Because as the elected representatives of Australia, we're there to represent the citizens of Australia. I don't think this idea that we should be, you know, I don't, I'm not attracted to this idea that we should be parcelling people up according to how we think they vote or what their political sympathies are. I think, you know, that is a recipe, I think, for social division and the opposite of social cohesion.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: And is it wrong to suggest, then, that Labor is bringing particular ethnic groups in with that vision?

DAVE SHARMA: Yes, I wouldn't ever make that assertion. I don't believe it to be true. And I also don't think it's a very helpful thing to be saying.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Well, there are diverse political views. I actually did say this to Senator Price. There are diverse left, right in all communities. Like, I can only speak about my own in the Greek Australian community. Liberal voters, Labour voters. It's a mixed bag. I mean, that's kind of usually the way it is, isn't it?

DAVE SHARMA: I think so. I mean, look, people are people, right? And, you know, people have different experiences and different life circumstances, different employment. You know, they live in different suburbs and different neighbourhoods. They join different community groups. Of course, they're going to be as varied as, you know, other Australians in terms of their political views. Our political system is competitive. People don't vote the same way their whole life, people don't take instruction about how they should vote and that's good and proper. But I think it's, you know, you're making, never mind whatever prejudice you might be revealing, but you're making a pretty deep analytical error if you think that certain ethnic or migrant groups or professions for that matter, or anything else, or genders, all vote in a certain way. It's not true. You know, I think we're in a competitive political system where we, as the Liberal Party should be striving to win everyone's at least interest and hopefully their support.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: So do you accept, though that there is discontent in the Liberal Party right now? I mean, that's what I've picked up in relation to these comments and the way that they are landing on multicultural communities, not just the Indian community.

DAVE SHARMA: Well, look, I certainly regret the hurt that it has caused in the Indian Australian community. And I think we need to, we need to help address that and help make clear that, you know, they are welcome in the Liberal Party and they are welcome in Australia.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Look, I want to move to something that I think can be seen almost in an adjacent way and I'll explain. There's been a lot of commentary about what we're seeing, the military parade we saw yesterday in China and a focus on Labour and the fact that Dan Andrews went along. You've also, as a Liberal Party, Been working very hard on mending relationships with the Chinese Australian community. How careful do you have to be about your rhetoric in relation to all of this?

DAVE SHARMA: Well, I think we need to draw a distinction between Dan Andrews visiting China and then Dan Andrews, you know, attending a military parade in China, which has leaders of countries with whom we have vastly different views and approaches. Leaders of North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Russia, for instance. And I think they're quite different things. I've got no problems with Dan Andrews making a visit to China. I've got no problems with commercial engagement with China. But I think, as Bob Carr himself recognised and decided not to attend, attending this sort of military parade, which was a show of might, which was clearly directed, intended to send a strong message to the Western alliance system in countries like Australia, which was attended by a whole group of leaders from countries who are basically committed to overturning the order that we seek to preserve. That sends a very bad signal if you're a former Australian leader of any calibre. And I think that is the; that is the problem with this visit.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: And more broadly, in terms of what we're seeing come out of China. How much is this a response to the way, for instance, Donald Trump has slapped tariffs on India and kind of realigned, I think, the, the Modi and his relationship with China, Russia. How worried are you about the shift that we're seeing geopolitically in relation to that?

DAVE SHARMA: Well, I'm particularly worried about the deterioration in the US India relationship. And I think, you know, that's been quite clearly choreographed in this past week with, you know, this is Modi's Indian Prime Minister Modi's first trip to China in seven years. The countries have not had direct flights. They've been in quite a tense state, India and China. But the fact that I think India found the US imposition of tariffs to be punitive, has sort of pushed them into China's arms. And I think that is worrying. I mean, you know, China was using this conference to try and position or portray itself as the guardian of the global order, as opposed to the United States, which they seek to portray as a disruptor of the global order. That's not a view we share, but they are clearly, you know, making the most of former close US partners who are upset by their treatment and seeking to capitalise on that discontent.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Thank you so much for joining us.

DAVE SHARMA: Thanks so much, PK.

[ENDS]

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