Topics: Trump Netanyahu meeting

E&OE.......................

MARK LEVY: The big story of the morning and the day is this news out of the United States that the US President Donald Trump and the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu have announced that they've agreed to a peace plan for Gaza. The 20-point plan released by the White House is designed to encourage Palestinians to remain in Gaza, would see hostages and prisoners released on both sides, and see the Israeli military end its retaliatory attacks. The plan also states that once all hostages are returned, Hamas members who commit to peaceful coexistence and to decommission their weapons will be given amnesty. Members of Hamas who wish to leave Gaza will be provided safe passage to receiving countries. We're now waiting for the Hamas response to this plan. But to get a local response, I thought we'd catch up with the former ambassador to Israel and current New South Wales Senator Dave Sharma. He's on the line with me now. Senator Sharma, good morning to you.

DAVE SHARMA: Good morning.

MARK LEVY: Wonderful to catch up as always. Now, look, on the face of it, a peace deal between Israel and, and Gaza is a very welcome thing. In reality, what are your views on this and will it happen?

DAVE SHARMA: Look, this is the most comprehensive incredible plan that's been put forward for ending the war today. And the fact that, you know, the United States is behind it, and the Arab world, Israel's neighbors are behind it, gives it a good chance of success. But look, the big variable here is will Hamas accept it? And I think there's two factors there. Firstly, how much military pressure are they under? And bear in mind that, you know, Israel's got a new offensive underway in Gaza City. Hamas has lost a lot of its senior leadership. But also importantly, how much pressure do Hamas' main foreign backers, countries like Qatar, like Egypt, and like Turkey put on it to accept this deal? So I'm hopeful that this will lead to an end in the conflict. And as I said, it's certainly the best plan we've had on offer to date.

MARK LEVY: And, it sounds like, uh, Senator, that, uh, Donald Trump has made clear to Benjamin Netanyahu, uh, this is all to do with the Israeli hostages being released, that he's... he must have had some sort of communication with Hamas or, uh, with at least, um, Gaza, someone in Gaza saying that this could potentially happen because that's why we're in this position. The, the release of the hostages is paramount to any deal being done.

DAVE SHARMA: It is. And look, what this demands is basically that, I think within 72 hours of the deal being reached, all hostages would be released and in return. And at the time, Israel would release Palestinian prisoners it holds and gradually withdraw. But, look, Trump had a long meeting in New York last week with, you know, leaders from the Arab world and from the Muslim world, Indonesia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Qatar. And clearly, they are very much part of this peace plan, and they have been involved in its formulation.

MARK LEVY: Having discussed this in recent months, uh, Dave, even your side of politics wants to see a two-state solution once Hamas is out. Uh, they can have no place in any democracy. But can this deal work if, if Palestine isn't recognized either?

DAVE SHARMA: Uh, look, absolutely it can. And I would say that what the government did last week, what Anthony Albanese did, basically set back these efforts. By recognizing a state of Palestine, absent any of these conditions that Donald Trump has laid out, they basically rewarded Hamas and strengthened Hamas's hand. So Australian diplomacy has been complicating efforts and making more difficult efforts to reach peace. And we've basically dealt ourselves out of any relevance or influence in the Middle East. And, you know, this plan would have been announced without any consultation or heads up to Australia because we're no longer seen as a credible or serious player there.

MARK LEVY: Mm. uh, in my understanding of this deal, it basically allows Hamas members in the area to leave with safe passage if they so choose in order to create a demilitarized zone. Is, is that the right move, Dave?

DAVE SHARMA: I think it's, it's the realistic move. So it would give them... you know, those that are prepared to give up, give up arms and forswear violence will be given an amnesty, others would be allowed to have safe passage. And then, you know, an international security force will, will come around and conduct a disarmament. That's the way these conflicts are often resolved. Um, you know, people might be unhappy that some Hamas members, many of... well, all of them have blood on their hands, will get off scot-free. But I think the bigger picture here is resolving this conflict, allowing the Palestinian people to have some hope again and allowing Israel to get its hostages back. And I think that's a prize worth pursuing.

MARK LEVY: Well, it's it's encouraging, isn't it, Dave? And I think we've all been wanting to see an end to what's happening over in Gaza and what's happening in the Middle East. And if this does bring peace, well, well, that's something we should celebrate. But I guess the next, um, 24, 48, 72 hours will certainly indicate whether or not this is a realistic proposition. We, we can only hope that it is.

DAVE SHARMA: Uh, look, that's right. And I hope the government now, you know, puts... the Australian government now should be calling on Hamas and the foreign backers of Hamas to make sure that they accept this agreement because if we're serious about peace, we should be supporting this.

MARK LEVY: All right. one last one before you go, Dave. the prime minister has been overseas. He's gone to the UN. He's gone to the United Kingdom,through United Arab Emirates. I note Greg Sheridan writes in The Australian newspaper today, "The Prime Minister's fantasy tour leaves us on a road to nowhere." Um, has he managed to come up with anything on this tour or was it complete waste of time?

DAVE SHARMA: Well, look, he went to the UN. He unilaterally declared a state of Palestine, which Australia can do nothing to bring about and which, as I said, just complicated peace efforts there. He didn't get a meeting with Donald Trump, which was meant to be the main purpose, uh, of that meeting. He then went and addressed the Labor conference in Britain, a partisan thing to do. You know, he's there to represent the Australian people, not the Australian Labor Party. Yet to my mind, he's returned home empty-handed. And I don't discount the importance of prime ministers traveling overseas, I think it is important, but it needs to be tied to outcomes and achievements. And I don't think you can point to much from this trip.

MARK LEVY: Yep, I tend to agree with you. Good on you, Dave. Lovely catch-up as always, mate. And, uh, an interesting couple of days ahead in the Middle East. Let's hope it, it all comes to fruition for the sake of not only the Middle East, but the Western world as well. Thanks so much for joining us, Dave.

DAVE SHARMA: Thanks, Mark.

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