Topics: Inflation figures, government spending, Net zero policy, anti-semitism in Australia

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STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: We're joined by Shadow AssistantMinister for Competition, Charities and Treasury, and former Ambassador toIsrael, Senator Dave Sharma. Dave, good morning.

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DAVE SHARMA: Good morning, Stephen. Great to join you.

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STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: This inflation story should have been the biggest yarn last week, but unfortunately, you didn't seem to land ablow on the government. I mean, what's going to happen this week? Because now that there's no rate cut, it's another chance for you to have a bite.

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DAVE SHARMA: Well, I think we do need to keep highlighting this because the truth is, living standards, people's ability to pay for things in Australia has been going backwards now since 2022. Almost alone amongst developed nations around the world. And the inflation figures show that electricity has gone up 24% in the last year, utilities have gone up14%, eggs, tea, coffee, all up in double digits. Things are becoming less affordable for Australians and their lives are getting harder. And now because of this, there's no prospect of a interest rate cut today.

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STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: It's interesting that some economists are actually suggesting that we should have an interest rate rise, that the Reserve Bank needs to look at increasing interest rates to bring inflation under control.

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DAVE SHARMA: Well, look, we've now got inflation running at 3.2% on an annualized basis. The Reserve Bank's target's between 2and 3%, so it's running higher than it should be. And I'll just point out, around the rest of the world, central banks are cutting rates. I mean, the US Federal Reserve met last week and cut their interest rates. In Australia though, analysts and commentators are now saying the next interest rate move might need to be upped to curb these inflationary pressures. And the important point here is what's fueling this is government spending. I mean, we've got government spending growing at four times the rate of the economy, which means they're spending four times faster than the money they're taking in. And that's adding to inflationary pressures across all sectors, because governments in all sectors of life, and that's hurting the private sector but it's pushing up prices as well.

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STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: As an alternate government though, how do you get that message out there that you need to cut spending? Because we've become a me too society. Unless there's a handout from us from government, we're not happy. Um, and when you've got a government that is going to follow, I guess, a populous agenda like that, it's going to keep going in the wrong direction. But in order to try and win votes back, how do you match that?

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DAVE SHARMA: Well, I think we've got to make the case patiently and continuously that government spending, you know, whilst it might seem like a, a good handout at the time, ultimately makes us all worse off. I mean, that's a lesson from Australia, the 1980s and the Hawke-Keating Labor Governments and also the 1990s, that everyone would be better off if government got out of the economy, reduced, uh, the penalties for hard work and enterprise, uh, and allowed the economy to grow, because then everyone's better off. At the moment, the government's handing out money to compensate for their own bad policies, like with the electricity bill rebate.

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STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Yeah, it's, um Look, it's one of those things where, uh, you know, there, there's some government spending that needs to be done, but we're clearly going too far. Now one area where I think we're spending too much money is on this net zero madness. The Nationals have come to a decision on their policies list. They've decided to scrap their net zero policy. Um, my understanding is your party room met last Friday, but still no decision here. And, now correct me if I'm wrong, but you've actually said, put the coalition agreement back on the table because the Nationals have done this.

DAVE SHARMA: Well, look, my view is we're in a coalition, which means we should be developing policy as a coalition, as a team. And that means, you respect the internal deliberations, you meet in the party room, the Shadow Cabinet meets. There's Nationals and Liberals in both of those, and then we resolve these issues internally and then we, we inform the public of our policy and we all go out and sell it. And what I find problematic here is, is the process. I mean, everyone can go out and announce their own preferred policy on any number of issues, individuals or groups of individuals, but ultimately, we have to function as a team and that's the only way we can present ourselves as an alternative government.

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STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: But in fairness, Matt Canavan has been calling for a joint party room debate on this for two years or probably longer than that. Uh, it doesn't happen. I mean, why don't the two coalition parties get together more often and discuss policy?

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DAVE SHARMA: Well, we did have a party room meeting on Friday, as you mentioned, to discuss these issues. Liberals and Nationals were invited. I think about 30 members of parliament spoke. But the position we adopted after the last election loss, under Susan's leadership, but also David Littleproud, was that we'd go away and we'd review and revise these policies and present something new and, and we'll all be involved in that discussion. So at the moment we've got the Nationals saying what their policy is. The Liberals are, I think close to resolving what ours is, but then we will need to resolve that as a coalition and make sure that those two things are reconcilable.

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STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: But surely this a no-brainer given that the policy isn't working. The government has got this net zero target by 2050. We've seen energy prices go through the roof. Emissions are actually increasing, not decreasing. Isn't that enough to say, "Well, this isn't going to work, we've got to find a better way"?

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DAVE SHARMA: We're entirely of that view. I mean, the government's energy policy and climate policy is not working. Emissions aren't coming down. Prices are getting higher. The grid's getting less reliable, manufacturers fleeing, and big industrial facilities like Tomago Shelter are saying they're going to have to close up shop. So it's clear Labor's energy policy is not working. Now, we need to have a relatively well-developed policy that says not only how we going to bring down prices, how we going to improve the supply of gas, how are we going to increase reliability, how are we going to make sure households pay less for electricity, and how are we going to reduce emissions at the same time. So it's not just as simple as saying let's abandon net zero. Because it's any number of Labor's policy measures here that we need to examine and provide an alternative to.

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STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Given the dire polling though, doesn't that say that you've taken too long to tell the electorate what you actually stand for?

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DAVE SHARMA: Well, look, I think it's a fair point tosay that we've spent too long being seen to talk about ourselves and amongstourselves and about our own policy development. And what the electorate wantsto see is us - be a credible opposition, which means we're holding thegovernment to account and we're talking about their failings, and providing analternative set of offerings so we can be an alternative government. And Ithink I can understand that the polling numbers reflect the frustration that thatis not happening yet.

STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Dave, I want to touch on one other issue. I mentioned earlier there was a ... And you may or may not have seen this on Chris Kenny's program on Sky last night. The nursery in Melbourne that rejected a job applicant simply because they're an Israeli. I attended an event last week that you spoke at. An anti-Semitism summit. And that explicit and, and outwardly, obvious anti-Semitism is a problem that we need to address. But one of the things that came out of that, that discussion last Monday night was this silent anti-Semitism that seems to be creeping in.

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DAVE SHARMA: I agree, Stephen. I mean, it seems to be that, you know, if, an Afghan, an Iraqi, a Lebanese person a Chinese-Australian, an Indian-Australian, an Italian-Australian, what ever ethnic background you want to choose here, was rejected from a job because of their ethnicity or nationality or religion, we'd all rightly cry foul and say," This is a clear case of discrimination." And our laws exist to prevent this from happening. Australia is a society where individuals are treated equally. But it seems to be when it comes to discriminating against Jewish people, um, the government and the authorities give it a pass and say, "Well, this is a special case." It's not. It's just another form of discrimination and it should be as unacceptable as any other form of discrimination.

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STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Yeah, and it ... But, uh, what scared me was when, uh, that discussion about, you know, Jewish Australians, and particularly here in Canberra where we're supposed to be all progressive and enlightened, they're not getting invited over to ... for dinner parties anymore. They're not getting asked to go out for drinks, et cetera. I mean, this is, uh, more insidious than, than that You know, when, when somebody tells you who they are, you can identify them as an anti-Semite, but when it's happening quietly like that, it's a lot easier to, to a lot more difficult to eliminate.

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DAVE SHARMA: I agree, Stephen, and I, I've heard, look, heartbreaking stories of Jewish Australians who have spent their whole life here, they've made immense contributions to society, they've got deep involvement with institutions in the arts or in culture or in philanthropy, and after the 7th of October, a lot of those people have been dropped. People no longer answering their calls, people no longer want to socialize with them or mix with them. Um, it's heartbreaking to hear because these are all great Australians who've made such a good contribution and the idea that they're being turned on by their fellow Australians or shunned is just heartbreaking.

STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: What struck me, and I mentioned this earlier this morning, that, you know, I'm Catholic, and if I go to a function at the Catholic, local Catholic hall or go to the church, I just walk in and sit in my seat. To go to the Jewish Memorial Centre, I have to have my name ticked off, there's a security guard at the door, we have to go through security like a, an airlock. I mean, Jewish Australians shouldn't have to put up with that, but unfortunately that's the reality.

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DAVE SHARMA: They do, and I think they're the only group of Australians that does. I mean, there's security guards at schools, there's security guards at religious institutions, sometimes there's security guards at aged care homes and facilities. They have to worry constantly, and for good reasons. I mean, our security agencies tell them this, because of threats to their lives and safety and their property. And we've seen over the last two years, we've seen synagogues getting firebombed, we've seen cars getting torched, we've seen homes getting graffiti, we've seen businesses getting burnt down. And this is only happening to Jewish Australians.

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STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: It's frightening, what a sad indictment. Dave, good to talk to you this morning.

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DAVE SHARMA: Thanks so much for having me, Stephen.

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STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: All the best. Senator Dave Sharma.

[ENDS]

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